tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28040139.post335904858110655807..comments2023-07-25T09:25:34.293+01:00Comments on The Voyage: Irish Autism Advocates Obsession with ABASharon McDaidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13550156204691696968noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28040139.post-7259508002044889972008-02-07T19:25:00.000+00:002008-02-07T19:25:00.000+00:00About why the parents would be opposed to 'eclecti...About why the parents would be opposed to 'eclectic'? Can hypothesise on a few reasons here:<BR/><BR/>1. Always trust the provider and especially if they are the funder as well to go for the cheapest option. Eclectic sounds really good in this context since any amount of low quality high volume stuff (e.g. poorly trained staff in ratio of 6 kids to 1 staff for most of the day)can fly under the radar with no quality control whatsoever.<BR/><BR/>2. Related to 1. - parents naturally view a one on one staff: student ratio as the best because they feel they can't possibly lose. They can if they looked at methods and outcomes, but from a simple perspective, this looks to be the ultimate. <BR/><BR/>3. ABA has been most successful in promoting the 'can't be learnt unless directly taught' scenario, which is utter nonsense and can be disproved for any person on the planet, autistic or not, in under five minutes.<BR/><BR/>I'd be leery of 'eclectic' services come to think of it and would devise my own set of 'eclectic' because at least I'd feel I had control of it.Alyrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13293946886969452901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28040139.post-31329698248585281662008-02-07T16:59:00.000+00:002008-02-07T16:59:00.000+00:00Madam Ovary, (do you get complimented on your pseu...Madam Ovary, (do you get complimented on your pseudonym often, it's great!) from what I understand of the case, the parents have to pay just their own legal costs. <BR/>So basically, the lawyers win :-(<BR/><BR/>Alyric, I can see that aba (not necessarily ABA TM) can be a useful tool for certain situations. I have/am trying to 'train' all my children in all those self care types of skills. <BR/><BR/>I didn't know that these Irish ABA schools are involved in research. And don't ask about ethics, don't you know it isn't the done thing in autism research...<BR/><BR/>Like you say, most ABA programmes these days are not pure ABA, but are eclectic themselves and are probably only labelled ABA for funding purposes. So why are the parents so opposed to a school which uses an eclectic mix of techniques, probably including some aba type things like PECs. <BR/><BR/>If they were campaigning for better schools in general, more staff and funding etc, I'd be right behind them. Not that they know or care what I think anyway!Sharon McDaidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550156204691696968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28040139.post-69948036957302125942008-02-07T16:27:00.000+00:002008-02-07T16:27:00.000+00:00Hi SharonI think there's a very strong ABA presenc...Hi Sharon<BR/><BR/>I think there's a very strong ABA presence in Ireland courtesy of Stephen Hayes et al and their research efforts - sort of migrated from the US. There are special school run in association with ABA researchers also I think. Seems to me that they get captive research subjects and the research subjects get educated. I'm pretty sure there's some hefty ethical questions in that mix, but hey, who would dare even ask? These are the 'white hats' and the kids are doomed anyway[\sarcasm].<BR/><BR/>That said, I can't see a problem about ABA being used for teeth cleaning and dressing and things of a motor memory nature. Phil Schwartz said something important about building up motor memory for things of that nature and seems to me that practice of the drill type exactly fits the bill. Of course the enthusiasts wax lyrically and falsely about the benefits of ABA for social skills, academic skills of more than the most basic type (and even there I think that could be easily disputed)as well as self injury. The evidence for the social skills and even the self injury is somewhat scanty. But, these days there's usually a stiff dose of floortime and non behavioral stuff anyway, which is all to the good and since therapists are human and not all that efficient they probably don't stick all that well to behaviorist principles. Throw in that most therapists will build up a relationship with the kids, which isn't in the handbook and it's not all bad by a long shot. I fondly recall one parent earnestly pointing to the peer playing integrated into her ABA program. She said that peer integration was the main part of the program and that this was called PRT. Obviously she has a somewhat tenuous relationship with the idea of a fact, but she was earnest and thought her offspring was thriving. Problems arise in the event that the offspring isn't thriving at all, which has happened, but all's fair in love, war and advocacy.Alyrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13293946886969452901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28040139.post-5637652648184373332008-02-07T14:58:00.000+00:002008-02-07T14:58:00.000+00:00Sorry, I know this is a minor point in your very w...Sorry, I know this is a minor point in your very well-written and interesting post- but when you say the parents had to pay the court costs does that mean that they had to pay the costs of the school's lawyers too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com